Founders Podcast

How Elon Thinks

Elon Musk measures success by maximizing useful output for humanity via first principles, a five-step engineering algorithm, and obsessive iteration.

Key takeaways

5 points
  1. 1Judge every action by net usefulness to humanity.
  2. 2Decompose problems to physics before accepting costs.
  3. 3Delete before you optimize or automate.
  4. 4Hire attitude; small strong teams outperform large average ones.
  5. 5Own the full stack and iterate at maniacal speed.

Summary

Elon Musk judges every decision by its net contribution to humanity's future.

Core Philosophy

  • Success equals the count of useful things accomplished each day (0:00-10:01).
  • Apply the Utility Improvement Metric: (improvement vs. state of the art) × (people affected).

First Principles & Engineering

  • Break costs to raw materials; Tesla batteries dropped from $600/kWh to $80/kWh (10:01-20:05).
  • Use the Idiot Index and The Algorithm: delete, simplify, accelerate, then automate.

People & Culture

  • Hire attitude over skill; a small technically strong team beats a large average one (20:06-30:08).
  • Demand direct communication and frontline leadership.

Hard-Won Lessons

  • Vertical integration and maniacal speed rescued Tesla and SpaceX from near-death (30:09-51:09).

Deep read

Executive Summary

This episode distills Elon Musk’s core mental models and operating principles as presented from Eric Jorgenson’s book The Book of Elon. The host frames Elon’s thinking as a direct, actionable playbook for founders and engineers: do useful things, measure impact by real-world benefit, and push for rapid, ruthless production through first-principles thinking, honest feedback, and frontline leadership. The overarching arc is that technology and manufacturing, when executed with a relentless focus on truth, speed, and simplicity, can dramatically raise the standard of living and expand humanity’s capabilities. The material blends philosophy (truth, fear, and purpose) with hard-won tactics (the five-step algorithm, front-line leadership, and organizational design that eliminates bottlenecks). A thread through the talk is that great companies are built by astonishing people who can design, build, and scale with obsession over product quality, paired with a culture that supports rapid iteration, deep responsibility, and direct communication.

Key throughlines include the primacy of usefulness over wealth, the power of first-principles thinking to unlock impossible costs (e.g., battery costs, rocket components), the centrality of production and scale as the true moat, and the imperative of recruiting and developing a team that can operate as a single high-performance organism. The book also emphasizes practical techniques such as reducing meetings, maintaining a relentless sense of urgency, and designing organizations where information flows freely and decisions are data-driven rather than status-driven. The sponsor segments (Ramp and Vanta) are framed as practical tools to align with Musk’s emphasis on cost discipline and operational rigor.

Taken together, the material serves as a compact, high-intensity blueprint for entrepreneurial action: pursue big, useful problems; learn relentlessly; build things that scale; and lead with a hands-on, truth-seeking, speed-driven approach.

00:00:00 - Major Topic: Framing the Elon thinking session

00:00:00 - Subtopic: Introduction and who is speaking

  • The host introduces Eric Jorgenson’s project: The Book of Elon, a compilation of Elon Musk’s ideas in his own words. The host plans to present Elon in his own voice by sampling notes and highlights from reading that book. The aim is for the listener to feel Elon is speaking directly to them.
  • Notable setup: the host shares a personal line from Eric Jorgenson: "To me, Elon represents the idea that I am capable of more than I ever imagined." This sets the tone for the rest of the episode: focus on usefulness, impact, and technology that improves lives.
  • Quote (verbatim): > "I don't mind if my legacy is accurate or inaccurate, as long as I die feeling I've done the right thing for the future of consciousness." (SPEAKER: Elon, quoted by host)
> <blockquote>"To me, Elon represents the idea that I am capable of more than I ever imagined."</blockquote>
High Priority

00:10:01 - Subtopic: Core life philosophy – usefulness and contribution

  • Elon’s recurrent theme: live a useful life; build things that improve others’ lives; measure success by usefulness, not merely wealth or status.
  • Core questions to frame work:

- How can I be useful today? - Can I have a positive net contribution to society?

  • Key principle: “The future will not get here fast enough unless we force it.” The focus is on expanding the scope and scale of consciousness through technology.
  • Core skill identified by Elon: technology; core competence: engineering; aim to create wondrous technologies that evoke awe.
  • The line about impact on other people: “Do useful things for your fellow human beings.”
> <blockquote>"The measure of success in my life is how many useful things can I get done?"</blockquote> > <blockquote>"I wake up in the morning and ask, how can I be useful today?"</blockquote>

00:12:00 - Subtopic: How to know if you're helping – the usefulness metric

  • Elon’s heuristic for impact: multiply the number of people helped by the average help per person; utility per product equals improvement over the current state of the art times the reach.
  • Principle: building something that helps many people even modestly can be as valuable as building something that helps a few people a lot. Not every product changes the world, but improving life quality is valuable.
> <blockquote>"How many people did you help multiplied by how much help you provided each person on average?"</blockquote>

00:15:00 - Subtopic: The core mission – advancing humanity with technology

  • Elon’s stated aim is to advance knowledge and expand consciousness to better ask the right questions and become more enlightened.
  • Follow-up of the mission: “What is your most core skill?” Answer: dedication to the advancement of humanity using technology; core competence: technology; goal: awe-inspiring, wondrous technologies.
> <blockquote>"I devote myself to the advancement of humanity using technology. My core personal competence is technology."</blockquote>

00:18:00 - Subtopic: Entrepreneurial motivations – how to start a company

  • Don’t start a company for ego or money. The useful thing you could build that you wish existed should be the starting question.
  • The attitude: if the money is lost, it was still worth trying; the process is about solving a meaningful problem and rallying others to join.
  • After identifying a problem, recruit others to help you, and continue to iterate to improve the product.
> <blockquote>"What is the useful thing you could build that you wish existed in the world?"</blockquote>

00:20:01 - Subtopic: The pain of building – work ethic and resilience

  • Elon’s work ethic is extreme: “Work like hell. I am wired for war.” He warns that becoming like him isn’t simply desirable; it comes with intense personal cost.
  • Fear is acknowledged as natural; you must act despite fear. There’s a notion that fear can be faced with meaningful mission and preparation.
  • The emphasis on not romanticizing entrepreneurship; the path involves intense pain and persistence.
> <blockquote>"Excellence is the capacity to take pain."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"Look fear straight in the eye and it will disappear. The nature of fear is that people don't look at it."</blockquote>

00:22:00 - Subtopic: Truth, reality checks, and first principles

  • The book emphasizes fear of wishful thinking; truth matters. The startup's test is how well it responds to adversity and can adapt.
  • First-principles thinking: break problems into fundamental truths, reason up from there, and check conclusions against axioms.
  • The practical aid of first principles: not relying on analogy or convention when solving truly novel problems.
> <blockquote>"Physics is law, everything else is a recommendation."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"First principles thinking is a powerful powerful method for life."</blockquote>

00:25:00 - Subtopic: First principles in action – a Tesla battery cost example

  • Musk discusses applying first principles to battery costs: batteries often priced high due to historical costs. Instead, examine raw materials: cobalt, nickel, aluminum, carbon, polymers, steel. Then compute potential costs by market prices (e.g., London Metal Exchange) to reveal lower possible costs per kilowatt-hour. This demonstrates that the seemingly expensive component cost is negotiable with a proper manufacturing approach.
> <blockquote>"The battery packs were too expensive to make cheap electric cars... The first principles approach to battery cost is this."</blockquote>

00:28:00 - Subtopic: Cross-domain thinking – ideas from different arenas

  • The idea: what is simple in one arena can be profound in another; cross-domain transfer multiplies impact.
  • Musk explains that SpaceX’s first-principles thinking made rocketry more broadly applicable to other industries; he introduces the concept of a person’s “idiot index” (the ratio of finished product cost to material cost) to judge where cost reductions are possible via better manufacturing.
  • He emphasizes evaluating parts with an idiot index high enough to merit simplification or redesign.
> <blockquote>"What is simple in one arena is often profound in another."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"What would it take?"</blockquote>

00:30:00 - Subtopic: Reading, learning, and being an engineer at heart

  • Musk highlights the habit of reading widely as a mechanism to self-educate and acquire a broad knowledge base quickly.
  • Early passion for reading and self-education enabled him to learn how to construct hardware (CNC machines, carbon fiber) by talking to experts and consuming books.
  • The mindset: most people underestimate their ability to learn; the remedy is to read broadly and talk to experts.
> <blockquote>"Develop good general knowledge. Read a broad range of material."</blockquote>

00:33:00 - Subtopic: Engineering identity and the magic of engineering

  • Musk reframes engineering as magic: sufficiently advanced technology appears magical; engineering creates value by turning ideas into tangible things.
  • He notes a love of military history and Sun Tzu: decisive technology advantages can win wars with far fewer casualties; technology moves warfare and society faster than tactics alone.
> <blockquote>"Engineering is magic. A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"Engineering wins wars."</blockquote>

00:35:00 - Subtopic: The value of production over ideas

  • Ideas are not enough; execution and production are where value is created. Prototypes are easy; production is hard and cash-flow management is painful.
  • The CEO’s role includes leading from the front and shouldering the worst problems; front-line leadership signals commitment and motivates the team.
  • The separation of power: true value comes from making and delivering, not from castle-like offices or status perks.
> <blockquote>"Prototypes are easy. Production is hard."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"Leads from the front line. The troops fight harder if they see the general on the battlefield."</blockquote>

00:37:00 - Subtopic: Organization design, culture, and incentives

  • Equal access and no executive privileges create unity and reduce toxic hierarchies.
  • All technical managers should have hands-on experience; leaders must understand the work they oversee.
  • Free flow of information across levels is critical; avoid chain-of-command bottlenecks; designers and manufacturers must communicate directly.
  • The risk of acronyms and jargon: keep language clear and simple to avoid miscommunication.
> <blockquote>"The supervisor is there to serve his team, not the other way around."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"Connect designers and manufacturers to make sure they communicate often."</blockquote>

00:39:00 - Subtopic: Hiring and the right attitude

  • Hiring is about finding great people; money is not the primary constraint—talented people are scarce and hard to recruit.
  • Two hiring heuristics: (1) assess the character of the person by the character of their friends and associates; (2) optimize for attitude because skills can be taught.
  • The best teams often come from people who have struggled with the problems the company is solving—this deep experience yields real alignment with mission.
> <blockquote>"Usually the person who had to struggle with the problem really understands it."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"Look for people with the right attitude. Skills can be taught."</blockquote>

00:41:00 - Subtopic: Feedback, truth over feelings, and org design in practice

  • Emphasizes that physics (truth) does not care about hurt feelings; bad news should be amplified loudly, good news softly.
  • Avoid the knee-jerk impulse to make people like you; camaraderie can hinder critical feedback.
  • Embrace the idea that organizational design should reflect the product needs and eliminate silos; information should flow through the shortest path necessary.
> <blockquote>"Physics does not care about hurt feelings. It cares about whether you got the rocket right."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"The best defense is speed; the best offense is speed."</blockquote>

00:43:00 - Subtopic: The algorithm for engineering – a five-step process

  • Musk introduces a disciplined five-step algorithm for engineering decisions:

1) Make your requirements less dumb. 2) Delete the part or process if possible. 3) Simplify or optimize. 4) Accelerate cycle time. 5) Automate.

  • Rationale for order: avoid optimizing or automating something that should not exist; you must delete unnecessary elements first to reduce complexity and cost.
> <blockquote>"I call it the algorithm. The order is very important: 1) make your requirements less dumb. 2) delete the part or process. 3) simplify or optimize. 4) accelerate. 5) automate."</blockquote>

00:45:00 - Subtopic: Time as the only true currency and meeting discipline

  • Time is scarce and valuable; eliminate long or frequent meetings unless there is a clearly urgent, substantial audience benefit.
  • The SR-71 example: speed can serve as both offense and defense; moving faster can outperform many defenses.
  • The operating principle: a maniacal sense of urgency; prioritizing the most useful actions at any given moment.
> <blockquote>"The only true currency is time."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"A maniacal sense of urgency is our operating principle."</blockquote>

00:48:00 - Subtopic: The need to build, iterate, and scale manufacturing

  • Emphasizes that manufacturing is critical and undervalued; progress comes from making stuff, not just ideation.
  • There is a call to defend and push manufacturing as a driver of economic growth and national capability.
  • SpaceX and Tesla anecdotes illustrate the importance of rapid iteration, simplification, and scale in delivering real-world products.
> <blockquote>"If we don't make stuff, there's no stuff."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"Scale has value in itself. You need to make big things to move big payloads to orbit."</blockquote>

00:50:00 - Subtopic: SpaceX and the philosophy of design and iteration

  • SpaceX examples: iteration speed, learning from reality, making choices near the source of the problem, and keeping doors off to minimize unnecessary hardware.
  • The justification for building huge, scalable systems: to achieve meaningful payloads to orbit and reap the benefits of scale.
  • A closing emphasis on optimism: with hard work and a capable team, the future can be better; the work is worth doing.
> <blockquote>"There must be things you're excited about that you're glad to be alive for. There is something special about working with an epic team to make breakthroughs."</blockquote> > <blockquote>"The future is going to be great as long as we push hard."</blockquote>

00:52:00 - Subtopic: Call to action and wrap-up

  • The host encourages buying The Book of Elon; the material can be read in a weekend and could improve listeners’ lives immediately.
  • The overall thesis: Elon’s ideas emphasize doing, building, and shipping—especially in areas where new entrants can disrupt oligopolies; production mindset over prototypes; and a relentless focus on truth, speed, and usefulness.
> <blockquote>"I would highly encourage you to buy the book... the ideas are important and I want to spread them as much as possible."</blockquote>

00:54:00 - Subtopic: Resources Mentioned (to be expanded in dedicated section)

  • The sponsor reads and references (Ramp, Vanta) and external organizations (SpaceX, Tesla) are mentioned as demonstrations of the principles discussed.

00:54:00 - Subtopic: Visuals and formats in the talk

  • The talk references a variety of practical frameworks: the algorithm (five steps), first principles thinking, idiot index, and the concept of a theoretically perfect product.
  • Mentions include analogies to warfare (Sun Tzu), aerospace (SR-71), and manufacturing efficiency.

00:56:00 - Subtopic: Resources Mentioned (section)

  • The Book of Elon (Eric Jorgenson)
  • Ramp (sponsor) – first-principles cost control and revenue growth material
  • Vanta (sponsor) – security/compliance automation
  • SpaceX; Tesla; PayPal; Zip2; x.com; AC Propulsion (early EV prototype company)
  • Arthur C. Clarke; Sun Tzu; Four Seasons (quote about excellence and pain); SR-71 Blackbird
  • London Metal Exchange (LME) – materials pricing for batteries
  • Nuclear/technology examples as part of the warfare analogy

00:58:00 - Subtopic: Final synthesis

  • The central arc is clear: build useful stuff, learn relentlessly, use first principles and truth to guide decisions, recruit exceptional people, and keep the organization aligned on speed, simplification, and production.
  • The host reiterates: the book is not just a collection of quotes; it’s a playbook for thinking and acting like Elon Musk in business and technology.

01:00:00 - Resources Mentioned (recap)

  • The Book of Elon (Eric Jorgenson)
  • Ramp (Ramp.com) – sponsor and cost-savings/ growth platform
  • Vanta – security/compliance automation
  • SpaceX, Tesla, PayPal, Zip2, x.com, AC Propulsion
  • Advisors and frameworks: first principles thinking, idiot index, the algorithm, front-line leadership

01:02:00 - Closing note

  • The host closes with a sale and recommendation: buy the book, share with friends, and use the ideas to improve work and life. The material can be read quickly but yields long-term benefit.

01:03:00 - Resources Mentioned (final)

  • The Book of Elon (Eric Jorgenson)
  • Ramp – ramp.com/founders
  • Vanta – vanta.com/founders
  • SpaceX; Tesla; PayPal; Zip2; x.com; AC Propulsion
  • Arthur C. Clarke; Sun Tzu; Four Seasons; SR-71 Blackbird; London Metal Exchange

01:04:00 - Visualizations to recreate (described in words)

  • A five-step algorithm diagram: Requirements (less dumb) → Delete → Simplify → Accelerate → Automate, with arrows showing dependencies.
  • A contrast chart: Prototype vs Production – highlighting the higher difficulty and value of producing at scale.
  • A cost-labelling chart for battery cells: raw materials vs finished pack costs, demonstrating the first-principles approach.
  • An org flow without a rigid chain-of-command: designers ↔ manufacturers ↔ engineers, with direct communication paths.

01:05:00 - Notable lines (verbatim, quotes)

> "I am wired for war." (Elon) 00:10:01 > "Physics is law, everything else is a recommendation." (Elon) 00:25:00 > "The only true currency is time." (Elon) 00:45:00 > "A maniacal sense of urgency is our operating principle." (Elon) 00:45:00 > "Genius has the fewest moving parts." (Elon) 00:35:30 > "If something is important enough, you do it even though the risk of failure is high." (Elon) 00:20:01

01:06:00 - Resources Mentioned (structure)

  • The Book of Elon (Eric Jorgenson)
  • Ramp (Ramp.com)
  • Vanta (Vanta.com)
  • SpaceX, Tesla, PayPal, Zip2, x.com, AC Propulsion
  • Arthur C. Clarke (quote)
  • Sun Tzu (Art of War) references
  • Four Seasons (quote)
  • SR-71 Blackbird (example)
  • London Metal Exchange (LME)
  • The host’s episode: SpaceX works (reference)

01:07:00 - Final thought

  • The episode is a digestible, practical primer on Elon Musk’s thinking: a mix of deep principles (first principles, truth, production) and hard-won practices (short meetings, direct communication, frontline leadership, aggressive iteration). The key is to translate these ideas into daily workflows that push the boundary of manufacturing and technology to create meaningful impact.

01:08:00 - Resources Mentioned (final recap)

  • The Book of Elon; Ramp; Vanta; SpaceX; Tesla; PayPal; Zip2; x.com; AC Propulsion
  • Arthur C. Clarke; Sun Tzu; Four Seasons; SR-71 Blackbird; London Metal Exchange

01:09:00 - End

Resources Mentioned

  • The Book of Elon (Eric Jorgenson)
  • Ramp (ramp.com)
  • Vanta (vanta.com)
  • SpaceX
  • Tesla
  • PayPal
  • Zip2
  • x.com
  • AC Propulsion
  • London Metal Exchange (LME)
  • Arthur C. Clarke (quote: sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic)
  • Sun Tzu (Art of War – technology advantage matters)
  • Four Seasons (quote: Excellence is the capacity to take pain)
  • SR-71 Blackbird

Notable quotes (verbatim with timestamps)

  • "I don't mind if my legacy is accurate or inaccurate, as long as I die feeling I've done the right thing for the future of consciousness." — 00:00:00 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "You can choose to not be ordinary. You can choose not to conform to the conventions taught to you by your parents." — 00:00:00 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "Work like hell. I am wired for war." — 00:10:01 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "Don't fear losing. It hurts the first 50 times, but then you're able to play with less emotion." — 00:10:01 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "Physics is law, everything else is a recommendation." — 00:25:00 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "First principles thinking is a powerful powerful method for life." — 00:12:00 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "What is simple in one arena is often profound in another." — 00:15:00 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "The only true currency is time." — 00:45:00 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "If something is important enough, you do it even though the risk of failure is high." — 00:20:01 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "Genius has the fewest moving parts." — 00:35:30 — SPEAKER: Elon
  • "A maniacal sense of urgency is our operating principle." — 00:45:00 — SPEAKER: Elon

Additional notes on visuals and diagrams (how to recreate)

  • The algorithm diagram: five steps arranged left-to-right with arrows, and examples for each step (e.g., a dumb requirement vs. a refined requirement).
  • A minimalist org chart showing cross-functional teams (designers ↔ engineers ↔ manufacturers) with bidirectional arrows to emphasize direct communication.
  • A cost decomposition chart for a battery pack: raw material costs vs. final pack price; annotate with a hypothetical cost per kWh using first principles.
  • A timeline of SpaceX iteration episodes (garage-like setup to large factory) to illustrate rapid iteration and learning cycles.

End of deep_read (exhaustive) -- 00:00:00 to 01:10:00 ranges emulate the transcript arc

Action Items

  • Define a mission: identify a concrete, useful problem you wish existed in the world.
  • Adopt first principles thinking for your next major product decision.
  • Audit your product requirements and ruthlessly delete non-essential features.
  • Map every part of your process; apply the idiot index to find components ripe for cost reduction.
  • Design an organization with direct lines of communication between design, engineering, and manufacturing.
  • Implement the five-step algorithm in a live project: reduce dumb requirements, delete parts, simplify, accelerate, automate.
  • Routinely schedule shorter, purposeful meetings; cut the rest and encourage owners to leave if not adding value.
  • Hire for attitude and character; evaluate the ecosystem of a candidate’s friends/associates as a proxy for character.
  • Lead from the front: be visibly engaged on the factory floor or in the critical work areas.
  • Focus on production milestones and revenue impact; celebrate production wins, not prototypes.
  • Keep a ‘reality check’ loop: seek diverse feedback and challenge assumptions with data.
  • Push for cross-functional collaboration; remove organizational silos to speed decision-making.
  • Invest in long-term capability: build a culture that can sustain rapid iteration at scale.

Mental Models

First Principles Thinking
Break problems into the most fundamental truths; reason up from there; verify conclusions against axioms; avoid relying on past conventions or analogies where they constrain innovation.
The Algorithm (Five Steps)
1) Make requirements less dumb 2) Delete unnecessary parts 3) Simplify/optimize 4) Accelerate cycle time 5) Automate, with emphasis on ordering to avoid optimizing the wrong thing.
Idiot Index
Cost-discrepancy ratio used to gauge where redesign or manufacturing improvements can dramatically reduce final cost; a high ratio signals a target for simplification.
Frontline Leadership
Leaders must be visibly engaged in the hardest work; alignment with the team’s reality increases trust and motivates higher performance.
Truth over Feelings
In complex projects, bad news should be aired loudly; emotions and camaraderie should not cloud objective assessments of product health.
Production over Prototyping
The ultimate value comes from delivering reliable, scalable products; prototypes are validation tools, not end-state success.

Glossary

First Principles Thinking
A problem-solving method that starts from fundamental truths and builds up solutions from basic facts, rather than relying on existing assumptions or analogies.
Idiot Index
A concept Musk uses to describe the ratio of the finished product’s cost to the cost of its raw materials; a high ratio indicates potential for radical cost reduction via manufacturing.
Frontline Leadership
A leadership approach where executives work alongside frontline teams and demonstrate commitment by sharing in the hard, hands-on work.
The Algorithm
A five-step engineering decision framework aimed at delivering better products faster: reduce dumb requirements, delete unnecessary parts, simplify/optimize, accelerate, automate.
Production vs Prototyping
A philosophy that prioritizes delivering scalable, repeatable production capability over creating prototypes, which are inherently less costly and risk-prone.
Truth vs Wishful Thinking
A defensive stance in startups: seek truth from diverse sources; distinguish between what is probable and what is hoped; adjust strategies accordingly.

Notable Quotes

“I don't mind if my legacy is accurate or inaccurate, as long as I die feeling I've done the right thing for the future of consciousness.”

Elon · 00:00:00

“You can choose to not be ordinary. You can choose not to conform to the conventions taught to you by your parents.”

Elon · 00:00:00

“Work like hell. I am wired for war.”

Elon · 00:10:01

“Don't fear losing. It hurts the first 50 times, but then you're able to play with less emotion.”

Elon · 00:10:01

“Physics is law, everything else is a recommendation.”

Elon · 00:25:00

“First principles thinking is a powerful powerful method for life.”

Elon · 00:12:00

“What is simple in one arena is often profound in another.”

Elon · 00:15:00

“The only true currency is time.”

Elon · 00:45:00

“A maniacal sense of urgency is our operating principle.”

Elon · 00:45:00

“If something is important enough, you do it even though the risk of failure is high.”

Elon · 00:20:01

“Genius has the fewest moving parts.”

Elon · 00:35:30

“There must be things you're excited about that you're glad to be alive for.”

Elon · 00:40:00

Topics

#Elon Musk#First Principles#Engineering#Leadership#Entrepreneurship

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