Ep. #19 | WTF is “Making it” in an Offbeat Career? Nikhil Kamath Ft. Kriti Sanon, Badshah & KL Rahul

Kriti Sanon and Badshah discuss what it takes to succeed in acting and music when conventional routes are abandoned.

Early Pressures and Discipline

• Kriti faced strict academics and physical discipline yet credits both for building her questioning nature (0:22-22:57).
• Parents removed financial fear, allowing genuine choice rather than survival decisions (22:57-34:15).

Personal Satisfaction Over Validation

• Success is measured by internal satisfaction, not audience approval or box-office numbers (22:57-45:09).
• Herd mentality and double standards for women who ask questions are rejected in favor of deep understanding (45:15-55:59).

Adaptation and Creative Realities

• Benchmarks like 100 Cr have lost meaning; artists must evolve ahead of trends or be replaced (56:00-1:27:15).
• Badshah balanced civil engineering and a government job while building music until passion proved sustainable without a Plan B (1:39:47-2:41:29).

00:00:22 – Major Topic: Childhood and Education

SubtopicEarly Education and Discipline

• The host introduces a tone of a long, detailed question about upbringing, education, and discipline. The thread runs through a memory of being told to balance performance with classical training (Kathak) and the tension between strict, traditional education and creative interests. The dialogue captures how a disciplined, math-focused upbringing coexists with early exposure to performance and dance.
• Key ideas: education as a baseline value; balancing academics with arts; the tension between strict training and personal interests.
• Edges of meaning: the recurring motif is “education is essential,” but it coexists with a pull toward dance and performance. The memory of a parent pushing for excellence frames the later discussion of hard work and risk-taking.

"Oh, God, this is like a detailed question. So, I had this very... like education is essential. Like, if somebody would come over, I would... ‘Oh, she dances really well. Dance for them.’" "Kathak and all is, like, a little classical, strict. And then, I was very studious. If there was a maths exam... 'What\'s going on in life?' All of that. She would be like, 'Solve this correctly.'"

SubtopicParental Expectations and Early Discipline

• The narrative threads through parental expectations about academics and future security. The memory of being sternly corrected for not solving problems correctly underscores a culture where performance, study, and future planning are prioritized.
• The dialogue foreshadows the later tension between pursuing a non-traditional path (music/creativity) and the traditional expectation of a secure career.

"Teach me how to dance. And I\'m like, \"It\'s too late now. I can\'t teach you.\""

SubtopicInterplay between Creativity and Formal Training

• The conversation hints at a fundamental tension: formal, math-heavy schooling versus artistic exploration. This sets up the larger theme of making it in an offbeat career, where discipline sustains risk-taking.

00:10:35 – Major Topic: Discipline, Spankings, and the Push to Excel

SubtopicChildhood Discipline and Mom’s Spankings

• The speaker recalls being disciplined by his mother for not staying out of trouble, with vivid scenes of being spanked for misbehavior around the table and balcony corners.
• Themes: consequences as a driver of behavior; the mother’s skepticism about the value of relentless studying; the tension between rigorous study and other passions (dance).
• This block grounds the persona in a family environment where hard work is assumed but also tested by parental skepticism about focusing solely on academics.

"I got a good amount of spankings from my mom. -Were you spanked? -Yes, of course, I was. Like, running around the table, then getting cornered in the balcony, and then getting a slap has happened. Properly. ‘What is the point of studying so much?’"

SubtopicPressure to Pick Practical Paths

• The dialogue documents parental concerns about practical career choices (engineering, software) versus the allure of a creative path. The mother’s caution about engineering being difficult and the suggestion to pursue a more stable track illustrate the common parental tension in offbeat career stories.
• This sets up the later articulation that success can be destiny and that hard work must contend with luck and timing.

"Engineering is quite tough." "Teach me how to dance."

00:22:57 – Major Topic: Validation, Performance, and Self-Assessment

SubtopicPersonal Satisfaction vs External Validation

• The speaker asserts deep self-satisfaction with performance regardless of external validation. This marks a shift from seeking external approval to owning personal agency over creative output.
• Important nuance: the statement acknowledges the world’s preconceived notions about success in creative fields and emphasizes internal standards.

"I\'m very satisfied with my performance. It doesn\'t matter if people don\'t like or validate it."

SubtopicCultural and Family Safety Nets

• The discussion touches on financial security provided by family and a lack of pressure about money, highlighting a supportive environment while still pursuing a challenging path.

"My parents never made me feel that there was no money. ‘Okay, just let me know how much...’ - 'Dad, how much do I have?'"

00:34:18 – Major Topic: College, Identity, and Memory as You Age

SubtopicMr. India Moment and College Realities

• The host jests about the “Mr. India” reference and the intensity of questions in a college setting. The segment shows a culture of constant curiosity and memory constraints (“memory is full”) as the speaker reflects on transition points.
• The discussion delves into the friction between external expectations and internal drive to perform.

"And where is this Mr. India personality? -You should have worn a Mr. India T-shirt. -Why? Because we had Mr. India sitting with us till now."

SubtopicHeight, Self-Perception, and School Experiences

• The discourse touches on physical appearance (height) and the pressure to conform or adjust (e.g., slouching). The questions about school and sports illustrate how self-doubt and perception shape self-presentation.

00:45:15 – Major Topic: The Drive to Excel and the Role of Family Feedback

Subtopic“Three marks out of 100” and Early Academic Pressure

• The speaker recalls being questioned about small gaps in performance and the weight of achieving top marks, reflecting an environment where micro-successes and near-misses carried significant emotional weight.

"Why did you not answer for these three marks out of 100?"

• The theme: a lifelong pressure to perform well, and the idea that success requires more than talent—it requires consistent, focused effort over time.

SubtopicSister, Family Dynamics, and Shared Pressure

• A familial dynamic is explored where siblings experience similar expectations, though the speaker notes differences in how tasks are approached (e.g., sister hiding roti to avoid dinner). This illustrates a family culture of diligence and shared standards.

00:56:00 – Major Topic: On Campus and Natural Talent vs. Hard Work

SubtopicHand-Eye Coordination, Natural Ability in Sports

• The speaker muses that certain abilities (hand-eye coordination in cricket) are natural and subject to environmental support. The implication is that nurturing talent matters, but recognition of natural aptitude is part of career shaping.
• The discussion hints at the need for facilities and support for talent to flourish in non-traditional career paths.

"We were curious about cricket—hand-eye coordination is a natural ability, not everyone... There must be facilities for that now. But what's natural... If you don't have music in you, you don't."

SubtopicData-Driven Creativity in Music

• The conversation shifts to technology and data in the creative process: streaming data, labels with data analysts, and how to time drops in music. The speaker acknowledges data can guide but cannot quantify beauty or the emotional impact of art.

"Spotify has given us a lot of data on music. And a lot... All the big labels have data analysts set up. Like, 'This certain genre of music can go this far.' 'This is when the drop should come in.' 'This is how long the build-up should be.' 'This is how long the song should be.' I don\'t think it will be successful. The beauty that it is, cannot be quantized. And that beauty... in film and music... is very beautiful."

01:06:20 – Major Topic: The Economics of Art, Risk, and Early Success

SubtopicThe 100 Crore Benchmark and Adaptation

• The speaker reflects on the era where hitting 100 crore rupees in revenue was a major milestone. He notes that it’s less of a big deal now, implying that merely hitting such milestones is not enough to sustain long-term momentum.
• The idea surfaces that the market evolves; the successful individuals are those who adapt as the environment changes.

"We did 100 Cr. Wow, we did 100 Cr!" "There was a phase where the ones who adapted, progressed. Those who didn\'t were left behind."

SubtopicThe Beauty and Difficulty of Creative Work

• The speaker asserts that creative work’s beauty can’t be captured by numbers, and that the artistic process remains a deeply human, transcendent activity even as data informs decisions.

"The beauty that it is cannot be quantized. And that beauty... in film and music, in my opinion, is very beautiful."

SubtopicIdentity, Brand, and Perseverance

• The discussion emphasizes branding, personal resilience, and the idea that you should continue pursuing your art even when audiences aren\'t guaranteed. A recurring theme is commitment as a driver of long-term success.

"You start off very superficially. You don\'t even know where in the film... The mark is there. You don\'t even know where the camera is. It\'s only acting. I can\'t even think of anything else." "I had only one plan in life. I never had a plan B. Even if that didn\'t happen, I don\'t know, I mean... That, \"I have to do this.\""

01:16:26 – Major Topic: Name, Reputation, and Self-Definition

SubtopicThe “Angry Superstar” Label and Personal Growth

• The speaker contends with how external labels (like a moniker for KL Rahul) and reputational framing shape self-perception. The moment also touches on the broader culture of celebrity and how identities are formed in public space.
• The line also hints at the tension between public persona and authentic self, and how this evolves with time.

01:28:52 – Major Topic: Underdog Mentality, Negativity, and Resilience

SubtopicHandling Negativity and Social Validation

• The speaker talks about being supported as underdogs initially, and the way people react to success when a project flops or when there is negative sentiment. The key idea is resilience in the face of public opinion.

"First, they support you, when you\'re the underdog. They enjoy it. \"Did you see that? Did you see that? The movie flopped.\" - Negativity or some... - You\'re being really safe, aren\'t you? - This is how it is."

SubtopicOngoing Curiosity and Self-Interest

• There is a strong emphasis on continuing to ask questions, curiosity, and not taking negativity as a fixed barrier. The speaker emphasizes the need to keep learning and testing ideas.

01:39:47 – Major Topic: Personal Wisdom, Collaboration, and Mentorship

SubtopicThe Role of Veteran Voices and Wisdom

• The speaker references listening to others for guidance and the humility to seek wisdom from others who have navigated similar paths. This includes drawing strength from experienced figures in the industry.

SubtopicSelf-Perception and Authenticity

• A recurring thread is staying true to one\'s own experience, listening to one\'s audience, and balancing adrenaline with responsibility for the craft.

01:50:30 – Major Topic: Origins, Courage, and Side Jobs

SubtopicEarly Life in Delhi and Chandigarh

• The journey from Delhi to Chandigarh for engineering (Punjab Engineering College) is situated as a pivotal shift from a conventional career to a creative path.
• There is a specific emphasis on the cross-cultural exposure of Punjab and the West, and how that created a fertile environment for contemporary Indian music to evolve.
• The speaker discusses the influence of West-bound cultural flows and the sense that opportunity exists if one is willing to pursue it anywhere.

"If you want to do something, you can do it anywhere. That's how I feel. You can do anything, anywhere, whenever you want, if you wish to."

SubtopicBalancing a Regular Job with a Creative Pursuit

• The speaker mentions working as an SDO in BBMB (Bhakra Beas Management Board), balancing a government job with music. This illustrates a real-world constraint many artists face when exploring an offbeat career path.

"I joined as an SDO in BBMB, Bhakra Beas Management Board. They created electricity. I didn't have anything else then. So, I had to do a regular job. So I was shuffling between that job and..."

SubtopicThe Birth of a Music Career and Early Breaks

• The shift from a conventional job to pursuing music becomes explicit as the path to making a living in music takes form: meeting managers, being discovered, and the way that audiences and industry respond to a new voice.

"Then one after another... Did they come to Chandigarh -or did you go? They came. -Yeah, he came. And then it blew up, then..."

02:01:20 – Major Topic: Craft, Tools, and the Tech-Enabled Era

SubtopicEarly Production Tools and DIY Ethos

• The speaker recalls buying equipment (speakers) and setting up a home studio, emphasizing the DIY ethos of building a craft with limited resources.

"Yesterday, I bought speakers. The ones where you can hear my final output, I mix on those speakers, 12,000 rupees."

SubtopicThe Motivation to Become Badshah

• The drive to become a distinctive artist is framed through a personal vow to pursue the craft with discipline and without external validation. The commitment to the craft is juxtaposed with a willingness to face time and struggle.

"Why do you want to do it? If I tell you, stop you, scold you, that, 'You don\'t do this.' And you go and do it again tomorrow... It will take time."

SubtopicPlan A, Plan B, and Persistence

• The speaker emphasizes not having a Plan B and the importance of relentless pursuit. This is framed as a core differentiator of those who succeed in offbeat careers.

"I had only one plan in life. I never had a plan B. Even if that didn\'t happen, I don\'t know, I mean... That, 'I have to do this.'"

02:11:58 – Major Topic: Turning Points: From Chandigarh to Delhi to Bombay

SubtopicThe Turning Point: The Song That Changed Everything

• The discussion covers the moment when a song gained traction and the willingness to travel for opportunities, including the host/industry asking to relocate to Bombay.

"It went bonkers in Delhi. People went insane, so... \"This Saturday Saturday\" is your song? They said, \"We want this song.\" I was like, \"Take it.\" They said, \"You come to Bombay.\" Now, take a look at my courage. I said, \"If you want the song, you come to Chandigarh.\" Then one after another... Did they come to Chandigarh -or did you go? They came. -Yeah, he came."

SubtopicGrowth, Market Demand, and Public Expectation

• The segment underscores how a single track can catalyze a broader career and the courage required to assert ownership of one\'s creative identity when facing industry gatekeepers.

02:22:21 – Major Topic: Perception, Ego, and Audience Dynamics

SubtopicThe Perception Gap Between Creator and Audience

• The speaker discusses how perceptions change over time and the importance of moving ahead of the times rather than clinging to the past. The idea is to stay relevant while maintaining authenticity.

"Your work does not change. But people\'s perceptions change. That phenomenon, how does it happen, why does it happen... I was still in school. He has been singing for 22 years. I mean, you know, after a certain age, an artist or a creative develops an ego. Like, \"No, it used to be like this. Back in my day, it was like that. This is how it is.\" You don\'t have to move along with the times. You have to move ahead of the times."

SubtopicThe Wordplay and Creative Jabs at Fame

• A moment of humor and a critique of the ego in the music industry appear, illustrating how a creator navigates fame while staying grounded in craft.

02:35:59 – Major Topic: Longevity, Community, and the Final Takeaways

SubtopicThe Realistic Timeline for Assessing a Business or Brand

• The closing practical question asks how long it takes to know if a business is good or bad; the answer given is about a 1–2 year window as a rule of thumb, acknowledging the uncertainty but emphasizing time as a judge of viability.

"How long does it take, normally... to know if it is a good business or a bad one? -How long? A year? -A year or two. One and two maybe..."

SubtopicFinal Reflections on Brand Levers and Growth

• The closing reflections touch on brand leverage, health and wellness sectors, and the appetite to scale into adjacent domains—recognizing both ambition and pragmatism.

Resources Mentioned

• LimeWire (peer-to-peer file sharing for music)
• Rishi Rich (music producer)
• Dance With You (Jay Sean) – influence
• Jay Sean (artist)
• Backstreet Boys (influence)
• Spotify (music streaming platform with data analytics)
• 100 Crore revenue benchmark (industry metric)
• Punjab Engineering College (PEC, civil engineering)
• Delhi Electricity Board (D.E.B.)
• BBMB (Bhakra Beas Management Board – engineer role)
• Gurdas Maan (Punjabi singer)
• Eminem (rapper)
• Tupac (rapper)
• Saturday Saturday (Badshah song)
• KBC (Kaun Banega Crorepati) – reference to prize money
• Chandigarh -> Delhi -> Bombay – geographic career path
• Mr. India (cultural reference)
• Kriti Sanon, KL Rahul, Badshah (named guests referenced in title; content here focuses on Badshah's journey)

Notable Lines (Verbatim)

00:00:22: "Oh, God, this is like a detailed question. So, I had this very... like education is essential. Like, if somebody would come over, I would... 'Oh, she dances really well. Dance for them.'" 00:10:35: "I got a good amount of spankings from my mom. -Were you spanked? -Yes, of course, I was. Like, running around the table, then getting cornered in the balcony, and then getting a slap has happened. Properly." 00:22:57: "I\'m very satisfied with my performance. It doesn\'t matter if people don\'t like or validate it." 00:34:18: "And where is this Mr. India personality? -You should have worn a Mr. India T-shirt." 01:06:20: "We did 100 Cr. Wow, we did 100 Cr!" and: "The beauty that it is cannot be quantized." 01:50:30: "If you want to do something, you can do it anywhere. That's how I feel. You can do anything, anywhere, whenever you want, if you wish to." 02:11:58: "This Saturday Saturday is your song? They said, \"We want this song.\" I was like, \"Take it.\" They said, \"You come to Bombay.\" Now, take a look at my courage. I said, \"If you want the song, you come to Chandigarh.\"" 02:22:21: "Your work does not change. But people's perceptions change." 02:35:59: "How long does it take, normally... to know if it is a good business or a bad one? -A year or two."

Resources Mentioned (Summary)

• LimeWire (peer-to-peer file sharing) – used to download music
• Rishi Rich, Jay Sean – early producers/influencers in the Indian/West fusion scene
• Backstreet Boys, Eminem, Tupac – early musical influences
• Spotify – data analytics for music trends
• Punjab Engineering College (PEC) – engineering education route
• Bhakra Beas Management Board (BBMB) – early civil service job
• Gurdas Maan – foundational Punjabi singer
• KBC prize context (Rs 3,20,000) – pop culture reference
• Chandigarh/Delhi/Bombay – geographic career narrative

Notable Diagrams, Slides, or Visuals (Words to Recreate)

• A mental map of a non-linear career path: from a structured, education-first upbringing (home, school, parental expectations) to a pivot point where love of music meets opportunity (college labs, music software, early collaborations), culminating in a rise to prominence with a “no plan B” mindset.
• A time-labeled journey arc: 0:00s–0:35: childhood discipline, 0:10:35–0:34: spankings and college; 1:06:20: data vs beauty; 2:11:58: turning point and relocation dynamics; 2:22:21: perception vs reality; 2:35:59: evaluating business viability.

Keywords and Concepts Defined (Glossary)

• Offbeat Career: a professional path that is not the conventional or mainstream (e.g., music in a market dominated by film, or entrepreneurship in a non-traditional domain).
• Data Analytics in Music: using streaming metrics, listener behavior, and genre trends to inform decisions about drop timing, song length, and production styles.
• 100 Cr: a perceived threshold of revenue that was historically a major milestone in Indian music/creative ventures.
• SDO: Sub-Divisional Officer, a civil service role; used here to illustrate the day job held alongside creative pursuits.
• BBMB: Bhakra Beas Management Board, a government utility/energy organization in India.
• LimeWire: early peer-to-peer file-sharing software used for downloading music (now defunct).
• Rishi Rich: music producer who played a pivotal role in the early Indian urban/hip-hop scene.
• Duopoly (contextual term in conversation): a discussion around market dynamics where two dominant players control a large share of a sector.
• Herd Mentality (referenced via 3 Idiots): a social phenomenon where people mimic others’ behaviors rather than following independent reasoning.

Mental Models & Frameworks (Names with Details)

• Long-Horizon Commitment: The mindset of sticking to a single plan with no Plan B, recognizing that substantial payoff requires time and perseverance.
• Move Ahead of the Times: A principle of not merely following trends but anticipating and shaping the next wave of change in the creative industry.
• Data vs. Beauty Tension: Data can optimize process and timing, but art’s impact (beauty, emotion) cannot be fully captured or predicted by numbers.
• Under-Dog Resilience: Early support followed by external negativity; resilience builds credibility over time.

Executive Summary

• This episode frames a candid, memory-rich dialogue about what it takes to make it in an offbeat career, with Badshah sharing a deeply personal arc from a disciplined, education-first upbringing to a bold pivot into music and entrepreneurship. Across stories of spankings, parental pressure, engineering in PEC, and the early influence of Western and Punjabi musical cultures, the narrative emphasizes that success is not just talent but the willingness to endure risk, adapt to changing landscapes, and persist without a safety net. The conversation also probes the tension between data-driven theory and the ineffable beauty of art, the role of perception in a creator’s career, and practical questions about when a venture becomes viable. The episode culminates in a pragmatic hard-won philosophy: stay authentic, stay hungry, and be prepared to move ahead of the times while staying true to your craft.

Key Takeaways

• Hard work matters, but luck and timing play a significant role; you must be ready to act when opportunity arises. ⭐ HIGH PRIORITY
• Have a singular focus and commit to Plan A with no Plan B; resilience under pressure differentiates successful creators.
• Education shapes discipline; however, pursuing a non-traditional path requires balancing that discipline with risk-taking and creativity.
• Data can guide decisions (drop timing, song length, genre), but the emotional impact and beauty of art resist quantification.
• Early life experiences (family expectations, geographic influences) shape your values and appetite for risk.
• The journey from a traditional job to creative success often requires gatekeepers to recognize talent and the courage to push forward despite initial rejection.
• Authenticity and real connections with your audience are more durable than chasing every trend or external validation.
• Perceptions of a creator evolve; to stay relevant, you must move ahead of times and adapt while preserving core identity.
• The best way to evaluate a business or project is time: about a year or two to form a credible judgment.
• Building a personal brand in a highly public space demands thick skin, deliberate experimentation, and continuous self-testing.

Action Items

• For aspiring artists: commit to a single, ambitious plan for at least 1–2 years; avoid a Plan B unless you have an exit strategy you truly value.
• Invest in basic production gear and learn foundational software; test your craft with small, live audiences before scaling.
• Learn about data signals (streaming metrics, audience demographics) but prioritize artistry and emotional resonance in your projects.
• Build a support network of mentors and peers who can offer candid feedback and honest testing grounds for new ideas.
• When evaluating a venture, set a 1–2 year timeline to assess viability; if it hasn\'t shown clear momentum by then, reassess.
• Cultivate a personal narrative that remains authentic even as you adapt to new opportunities or shifts in the market.

Quotes (Verbatim)

• 00:00:22 — "Oh, God, this is like a detailed question. So, I had this very... like education is essential. Like, if somebody would come over, I would... \"Oh, she dances really well. Dance for them.\"" — Speaker: Badshah
• 00:10:35 — "I got a good amount of spankings from my mom. -Were you spanked? -Yes, of course, I was. Like, running around the table, then getting cornered in the balcony, and then getting a slap has happened. Properly. \"What is the point of studying so much?\"" — Speaker: Badshah
• 00:22:57 — "I\'m very satisfied with my performance. It doesn\'t matter if people don\'t like or validate it." — Speaker: Badshah
• 00:34:18 — "And where is this Mr. India personality? -You should have worn a Mr. India T-shirt. -Why? Because we had Mr. India sitting with us till now." — Speaker: Badshah
• 01:06:20 — "We did 100 Cr. Wow, we did 100 Cr!" and "The beauty that it is cannot be quantized." — Speaker: Badshah
• 01:50:30 — "If you want to do something, you can do it anywhere. That's how I feel. You can do anything, anywhere, whenever you want, if you wish to." — Speaker: Badshah
• 02:11:58 — "This Saturday Saturday is your song? They said, 'We want this song.' I was like, 'Take it.' They said, 'You come to Bombay.' Now, take a look at my courage. I said, 'If you want the song, you come to Chandigarh.' Then one after another... Did they come to Chandigarh -or did you go? They came? -Yeah, he came. And then it blew up..." — Speaker: Badshah
• 02:22:21 — "Your work does not change. But people's perceptions change." — Speaker: Badshah
• 02:35:59 — "How long does it take, normally... to know if it is a good business or a bad one? -How long? A year? -A year or two. One and two maybe..." — Speaker: Badshah

Topics

["Career Paths", "Creativity vs Data", "Education & Discipline", "Music Industry Dynamics", "Personal Growth & Resilience", "Entrepreneurship"]